BABOYOT Principles in Action: Lessons from Benny Blanco Tortillas
(Listen on Apple or Spotify. Full transcript below.)
I recently had the pleasure of sitting down with Christopher Hudson, the CEO and creative chef behind Benny Blanco Tortillas. Our conversation revealed how Christopher perfectly embodies the BABOYOT (Building a Business On Your Own Terms) philosophy through his approach to premium pricing, operational excellence, and strategic growth decisions.
The Power of Premium Pricing
One of the most striking aspects of Christopher's business model is his commitment to premium pricing. Unlike many food entrepreneurs who undervalue their products in an attempt to gain market share, Christopher has positioned Benny Blanco Tortillas as a premium offering – and customers are responding enthusiastically.
As Christopher explained to me, premium pricing isn't just about charging more; it's about delivering superior value and being transparent about why your product commands that price. For Benny Blanco Tortillas, this means educating consumers about their ingredient sourcing, traditional techniques, and the tangible difference in taste and quality.
Operational Obsession as a Competitive Advantage
I LOVE Christopher's "almost obsession" with operational efficiency. It demonstrates how attention to production details can significantly impact enjoyment of work and a food business's bottom line. Long before moving into his current kitchen, Christopher was mapping out production flows and strategizing about equipment placement to maximize output.
This operational mindset isn't about cutting corners – quite the opposite. By streamlining production processes, Christopher has created space to focus on quality while still maintaining healthy margins. This balancing act between efficiency and craftsmanship is what allows Benny Blanco Tortillas to remain both premium and profitable.
Growing on Your Own Terms
Perhaps most inspiring to discuss was Christopher's willingness to say "no" to opportunities that don't align with his vision. During our conversation, he revealed how he turned down what amounted to a $1.2 million deal because it conflicted with his goals of building a profitable business and supporting the growth of a thriving local food system.
This patient approach to growth might seem counterintuitive in today's scale-obsessed business culture, but it highlights a core BABOYOT principle: true ownership means growing on your terms, not someone else's. By focusing on farmers markets and building a devoted regional following, Christopher has created a more resilient business model that reflects his values.
Building Brand Through Social Connection
Despite being a farmers market vendor at ONE location, and selling in Arizona only, Benny Blanco Tortillas has cultivated an impressive social media presence. Christopher's authentic and collaborative approach to content creation has helped the brand connect with consumers beyond their physical retail locations. This demonstrates how regional food brands can leverage digital platforms to build community without necessarily expanding their distribution footprint.
As I help food founders navigate the challenging landscape of growing their businesses, Christopher Hudson's story offers a refreshing alternative to the "grow at all costs" mentality. By embracing premium pricing, operational excellence, patient expansion, and authentic connection, he's proving that food entrepreneurs can build successful businesses while staying true to their core values.
Ready to Hear More?
This blog only scratches the surface of my conversation with Christopher. If you're a food founder looking for inspiration and practical wisdom, I encourage you to listen to the full episode. You'll get deeper insights into Christopher's pricing strategy, operational techniques, and the principles that guide his business decisions.
Listen to the full episode here and while you're at it, please subscribe to the podcast, leave a review, and share with other food entrepreneurs who could benefit from these conversations!
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Episode Timeline
00:00 Introduction and Podcast Goals
01:48 Guest Introduction: Christopher Hudson
07:50 Premium Pricing and Product Quality
14:01 Operational Efficiency and Business Growth
20:11 Sales Strategy and Market Positioning
30:53 Balancing Growth and Personal Well-being
34:05 Quality Over Quantity: The Business Philosophy
36:28 Exploring Alternative Funding Options
41:55 Mission, Vision, and Values in Business
43:59 The Evolution of a Business Mission
49:42 Community Engagement and the Porcupine Project
57:30 Harnessing Social Media for Local Impact
Full Episode Transcript
You're listening to the Good Food CFO Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Delevan, and with us as always is our producer, Chelsea Stier. Hey, Chelsea. Hey, Sarah.
You know, and I think most of our listeners probably know at this point, is to reach 1 million food founders. And there are definitely some ways that everyone listening at home can help us get there. And the big ones are going to be to share this episode with anybody that you think could benefit from it, whether it's another food founder or even just friends or family that you think will get something out of the episode itself, leaving a review.
especially on Apple is a big one for us and rating the podcast wherever you listen. So I'd love to kick off this episode, actually, Sarah, with a review. I love that. Yeah. So this one is really short and sweet. It comes from Sweet Maddie's Cookies On Demand. She was talking about the BABOYOT episode that we did recently, the live Q &A where you were answering listener questions.
She said very simply, quote, me running to this episode. And then there was like a little emoji of the like running woman. I thought that was really cute. That is super cute. Well, Maddie, I would love to hear what you thought about the episode. Email us, leave a comment. Hopefully it was helpful for you. We love those BABOYOT Q &A episodes. I mean, we love the live BABOYOT get togethers that we do quarterly. So we'd also love to have you.
join us for one of those live. Yeah. And this one was, I think, particularly juicy. We spent a lot of time talking about COGS and really breaking down like what goes, what is not included in COGS. And there was a lot of follow-up questions, a lot of follow-up comments. It was a very exhilarating episode, in my opinion. Loved it too. Yeah. Yeah. So why don't you tell us a little bit, Sarah, about our guest today? Yeah. So we've got a BABOYOT episode today.
And I'm talking with Christopher Hudson, who is the owner of Benny Blanco Tortillas. As you'll hear in the episode, his name is not Benny Blanco, but he's an Arizona native who started in food service like so many people do, like busing tables, serving, things of that nature, right? Doing everything from the cooking to the serving to the dishwashing, ultimately managing as well. But after a few years, left the industry.
but missed it, wanted to get back into it. Not so much that he wanted to go back to serving tables or managing restaurants or anything like that, but he had a passion or has a passion for sharing good food. And long story short, the opportunity came to him to purchase Benny Blanco Tortillas, the company. And he talks about that in more detail in the episode. And in his words, it was a match made in heaven.
And, you know, Chris and I have known each other for a couple of years now. We recently got to meet in person at the Intense Conference in San Diego. And it dawned on me at the beginning of 2025 when I was thinking about who do I want to have on the podcast and specifically who are the BABOYOT that I want to, you know, reach out to and have on the show. And I was like, oh my gosh, Christopher, like, why have I not asked him yet? So I'm really excited that this episode has come to fruition and that we're finally airing it.
today. Yeah. And I will say it became immediately evident to me as I was listening to the conversation why you wanted to have Chris on the show and how he is living out that like BABOYOT philosophy. Yeah. You know, one of the things that you guys talk about right away, right, is him leaning into pricing his product as a premium product and not shying away from that.
Yeah, he goes deep in this conversation about why. Not only why he's charging a premium price for his product, but why he's creating a premium product and how that is a part of the values of the company and what that actually does for his brand.
It's really interesting. We've said it many times here on the show. When we talk about finance, it doesn't exist in a bubble. We cannot make financial decisions in a bubble. I think Chris does a great job of talking about and sharing the fact that he wants to make a premium product, that it results in a better tasting, higher quality tortilla, but also why you can't just do that and not talk about it. Why you can't just do that and not
share who you're sourcing from, etc. I really love without him overtly saying it how brand, mission, vision, values really all play a part together in creating the ability to have a very successful premium quality and premium priced product. I think there's a lot that folks can glean from his mentality and from the way that he operates his business in that sense.
Yeah, and I would even say like on the flip side of that, right, in leaning into pricing properly, this premium product, on the flip side of that, he also has this very clear obsession, I would almost call it, like with operational efficiency. Yeah. Yeah. We did a profit assessment a couple of years ago and I was...
I learned about his obsession there because at that point he wasn't in his current kitchen yet, but he was dreaming about it. And he was like, we're going to move into a new space and we're going to position things this way. he was already thinking about how he could produce more tortillas and move the company in a more profitable direction than it was at the time because of the efficiencies within.
within the space. he, as you'll hear and as you're pointing out, he talks about it. He never stops thinking about it, right? And trying new things. And this is something that I also think we talk about a lot here because it can drive margin, right? Operational efficiency can drive margin. And if it's something that you stay on top of and that becomes a part of your everyday and the part of a focus for your team, it can have really big impact. So I love that he's such an operational nerd.
And that we get to showcase that in this episode Yeah, and then I will say the last thing that I'll kind of tease here from the conversation that I think people are really gonna enjoy listening to is his insistence almost right on growing on his own terms at the pace that he wants to and his I almost want to say like his excitement in saying no
Yeah, he shares an example in the episode about turning down what is essentially a $1.2 million deal. beyond just saying no, the other things he says around that are inspiring. beyond even BABOYOT, because it's beyond building his own business, he's thinking about it as building
regional food system, lifting up others. He's a really inspiring founder. I almost imagine if he's hearing me say this that he's smiling but also a little cringy maybe. know what mean? But Chris, it's true. It's true. I'm so glad that people are going to to hear more from him. He also has an incredibly fun Instagram account. I think we mentioned it.
during the episode, but he's a regional brand who sells primarily at farmers markets, right? At one farmers market. And his Instagram following is big and he has fun with it. He talks about that, I think, a little bit in the episode too. And I think that's – the list is endless of the things that we can get inspired around by listening to Christopher's story. Yeah. So I think with that said, Sarah, maybe we should just dive right into the episode. Yeah. I'm ready to hear it again. So let's do it.
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Thank you very much.
It was so nice to meet you in person.
I agree. I wish in hindsight that I realized we were both going to be there and we could have done like an in-person podcast recording, but this is just as good.
almost as good 99%. I'll take it. I'll take it.
I also want to share that I was the lucky, you were very, very generous with your tortillas and sharing them with all attendees really. And I feel like I got a very extra special package with multiple types of tortillas in it. And I've been eating them for breakfast, lunch and dinner the past couple of days and they are really, really stellar. Will you tell our listeners about Benny Blanco, what you create and sell and how long you've had the business for?
Yeah, I'd be happy to. First things first, my name is not Benny. My name is Christopher. I bought the business from Chef Ben Ramirez almost seven years ago. It'll be seven years in August. My wife and I were customers for about five years and he decided he wanted to move on to something different and he was going to sell the business and I couldn't, I say I, I couldn't let somebody else buy the business, but it was my wife's idea. She's the one that saw his post on Facebook. He had minimal social media.
And he happened to make a post that he was looking to sell the business. And he told me later that he had two people in mind to buy it and I was one of them. So that was fun. wow. And so he was making about a thousand tortillas a week at that time, maybe a touch over. And just this last week, we made sixteen thousand five hundred. We pride ourselves on using local ingredients. Our flour comes from a local flour mill called Hayden. And a lot of our flour is grown in Arizona within an hour's drive of our kitchen.
We use sea salt from Baja, but it's a local Arizona company that harvest it. So the sea of Cortez, which is like Rocky Point, Baja Peninsula water. We use pastured pork lard from a couple of local pig ranches and local butcher shops render it for us fresh every week. And then we use extra virgin olive oil from a local olive milk called Queen Creek olive milk for our vegan varieties. So we're using as much local ingredients as we can. Sometimes I got to get butter from Costco. It's just the nature of the business, but we're making really good tortillas. And so what I made for you.
was our traditional, the OG, as well as the hot peaches, which is peach habanero. And what was the other one? can't remember. was. yeah, tres chiles, tres quesos. Yeah, three chile, three chile, three cheddar. Yeah. was American English and Irish cheddar. And then jalapenos, serranos, and red fresnos. So.
It was like three pepper and
We had a tri-tip that my husband had smoked a little bit on the Weber on, I think it was Saturday night. Coming home from San Diego Monday, sack full of tortillas, we'd kind of warmed that up in the skillet and just was an excellent, excellent dinner. His favorite is the three pepper, three cheese. I'm torn because I especially like the OG with a little bit of crisp on like...
one side, but then sort soft on the other. That's my addiction. So I've had eggs in that and the try. I've had so many things in that. I promise I'll take a picture eventually, but it's just been sort of make it eat so far. So thank you again.
You're welcome. Glad you're enjoying it. Yeah. For the, for the attendees, I brought three packs. They were just sample packs. So I brought over a hundred, I think 120. Kat told me there were going to be 200 people there and I just didn't have enough time to make that many. Uh, so most people over half got one, but for you Kat and Bridget, I got you guys the full packs. wanted to take care of those who've helped me out over the years and you're definitely one of them.
And thank you for being here. You and I had a meeting and your wife, Jessica, I want to say a couple of years ago now. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, OK. I knew it wasn't in the last year, but beyond that, it's like, don't know. I don't remember the time frame. You came to me for a profit assessment, and it was one of those kinds of situations that happens quite often, really, where there's no issues.
Maybe almost three, it's been a little bit.
in the business and you, the sort of takeaway is you guys are doing a good job. There's no red flags. You know, we, talked about a couple of things, but really you guys had it all down and you're moving in the right direction. One of the things we talked about though, was increasing your prices and you were already from what I remember, a premium priced product. one of the main reasons that you were in San Diego at the conference was to talk about.
that is good.
being a premium product and you were talking about sort of cheap ingredients, right? And sort of like driving your costs down to compete on price versus really leaning into being a premium product and charging a premium price. And I don't want you to have to talk through your entire presentation, but can you share a little bit about what you talked about and sort of the position that Benny Blanco takes in the market?
Absolutely. There was no big light bulb moment. I've just figured out over the years that people are willing to pay for good quality goods. And if you try and compete on price, somebody's always able to do it cheaper. But if you compete on quality, not everybody can do a better. There can be, there may be some people that do it as well as you, but not in your area. And even if there are, the pie is large for well-made products, for edible products, for CPG.
There's no reason to compete on price. It's just it won't work. The numbers aren't there. And your ingredients themselves are a fairly small component of the overall cost of making something. So if you are able to save 50 cents per package, but your total cost is six bucks, who cares? It doesn't make enough of a difference to the bottom line. You'd be better off making your product better and charging more. And that was the.
That's the 30 second version of what I talked 40 minutes about.
Yeah, really liked you. You laid things out in a really great way. And I'll try to illustrate for people listening where you showed, okay, here's my premium product, right? What I'm putting into making a tortilla. And if I drove my costs down, Here are what those costs would look like. But then here's my labor. That's going to stay the same. My overhead costs are all going to be the same. So at the end of the day, the incremental sort of savings, right? And value you could pass along to the customer is so tiny versus
If you really lean into premium and price your product as a premium product, your profits will be greater. And I thought it was such a genius way to present the information as a starting point for the folks that were there. And as we saw and as I see a lot in the conversations I have in my community is like, people are afraid to price premium, even if they have a premium product. And tell me if your interpretation
of this was the same. I got the overwhelming feeling of people feeling bad about pricing customers out and someone not being able to afford their product.
You're 100 % correct. And I will be honest that I am not immune to that feeling. I just had my last price increase right after the first of the year. You even commented on my post because I gave the typical spill, you know, costs are going up. I need to do the best that I can. Sorry guys. Here's my price increase. And in retrospect, I shouldn't have done it. It wasn't necessary. My customers support me and they are in love with the product that we make and our mission to make the best product possible and take care of our community.
And so I didn't need to worry, but I still did. So I'm not immune to that. It had been two years since I had done a price increase. And that actually, now that I remember, was right after I had talked to you, because we had done a price increase right after the profit assessment with you. So it had been a solid two years. And once I did it, I literally had one person say something, but it wasn't they weren't mad. They were an envelope shopper and they had ten dollars budgeted for their packet tortillas.
And I told her it was 12 because we took a 20 % price increase to make up for not having done it for two years. And I said, you know what, if that's what you budgeted today, it's 10 bucks. Just know going forward, it's 12. But if that's what you're planning on, I'm totally okay with you paying the 10. And she was very grateful and she was there the next week and she had $12 in her envelope. So I wasn't upset about that at all. It, I don't know that I'll ever get over it. However, what I told one of the folks there at the conference was that no matter how cheap you go,
somebody else is still going to not be able to afford it and it just is what it is.
Yeah, you can't be everything to everyone. And we talk a lot, as we did at the conference as a group, about the importance of staying in business. And if you're creating a product, you personally and other folks that were there, that people want, and in many cases people need, they would prefer, customers generally would prefer to pay you the price you need to be paid to stay in business versus seeing you go out of business because you couldn't make the financial piece work.
And I think, you know, there were some, I don't remember what I commented on, on your Instagram post. Maybe I said something like, you don't need to explain yourself, but you know, it's nice that you did or something like that. I think that that's maybe like training wheels level, right? Where you're like, I know I have to do this. I am going to do this, but I want people to know that I'm the reason behind it. And I think, you know, there were, there were some folks at the conference who said, you don't need to do that.
just do it and you don't have to explain yourself to anybody. And I agree with both. And if it feels like the right thing to do, especially if it's the first time you've done a price increase or it needs to be a substantial price increase, share with people. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But maybe as you work that muscle and you know that your customers trust you to be fair, you won't have to do it and no one will have to do it in the future. But I think there's also a level of compassion that
exists in informing people that you're doing this for a very specific reason and a good reason because you're compassionate toward them and having budgets and maybe having less money to go around or you know what I mean? Like whatever it is, I think it's like there's like a level of humanity in explaining that we wish didn't have to be there and it doesn't necessarily have to be there, but I think it's quite nice.
that it was for you and for others who explain it.
It allowed me a couple things. It allowed me to buy a bigger van. I'm in my 2012 Toyota Sienna mini van. Fits eight if all the seats are in. I needed something bigger because I was driving a 2005 Toyota RAV4 that I couldn't fit everything in and I was having to do delivery on three days or three trips because I couldn't fit everything. So I was able to upgrade to something a little bit bigger so I could make more efficient my delivery route.
I was able to give all my employees a raise because it had been a minute since we had done that too. And so I didn't go out and buy a new motorcycle. Yeah. I did. I did put some money back into the kitchen, got a new mixer. I was able to, to invest that money back in. And obviously I didn't get, you know, a giant chunk right off the bat, but it works into the budget for the new equipment.
Yeah. Let's talk about equipment and efficiency because something I took away from our time together during the profit assessment was your, what I'm going to call like obsession with being efficient. And if my memory serves me correctly, you knew like number of steps between, you know, this table and that table, for example, or, you know, like this step and that step. And, and at that point in time, I don't, you weren't in your current kitchen yet. You were still.
in my garage.
in your garage and you were like, know exactly how much more efficient we're going to get when we move and I know exactly how I want to lay things out. I love that level of nerdiness because there are ways to save and also ways to help your team and your employees to do more in less time. There's so much exponential value in this.
Can you talk a little bit about like where this obsession with efficiency comes from and what having a focus on that has has done for the business, how it might have helped?
Well, this is going to sound a little funny. I'm going to throw a couple of things out there. Number one, I told you about the layout of my new kitchen. It's I've reorganized it like four times because once I got it set, it wasn't where I wanted it to be. So I've reorganized and I've remapped it and there's probably another one coming soon because I pay attention. And number two, I have ADHD like a son of a gun and I make a lot of mistakes. And so I got to figure out where I can save time because I
I'm a little absent minded sometimes. And so the obsession with efficiency kind of comes as a coping mechanism for some of my inefficiencies in my brain. And I think that's that's part of it. For instance, I noticed when we were in the garage kitchen, when one of my gals would refill my water jugs for me so we could we have one gallon pitchers and takes just shy of a gallon for a batch tortillas. She would go to the sink. She'd fill it up. She'd walk back over and she would walk the long ways around the table. And it was like
counted one time and it was nine steps and I went, huh, if I just turn that table sideways 90 degrees, it makes it four steps. Well, each step's about a second and we're making 15 batches a day. There's a couple minutes and I don't remember the exact math, but it worked out to like a half hour a day for two people is one man hour savings. Well, that's like 18 bucks when all said and done it, wages I was paying back then.
And all you had to do to get that was turn the table. Yeah. That's amazing.
Table so here I moved our dough rounder from one side of the table to the other because I noticed that we were having to make extra steps to get to it and we turned all of our tables 90 degrees because there was a workflow issue. I noticed one of the tables wasn't quite right so it went back so we have one one direction the other two go the other direction the perpendicular and sometimes you got to be willing to accept when a move doesn't work. There's been a few that we've done that
I've gone back to the previous way. You got to try it. And luckily for us, small moves are easy. Give it a shot, run it for a week, count the count the time and the man hours and adjust if necessary.
Yeah. Well, I'm in my brain right now. So I'm tying this conversation to something else that you showed during your presentation. And that was the trajectory and where you see your production going in terms of number of tortillas you're producing. I think it was in a year. Um, the draft and from where it was when you purchased the company to where you want it to be, think it was, was it 2028? 2026. Is a very significant difference. Yeah.
in 2020.
We started off at about a thousand a week. We're doing 16,500 week. Total numbers last year was 675,000, 675,300. And I'm hoping to hit 800,000 this year. So definitely the growth is slowing, we've kind of been doubling every year and you can only do that exponential growth for so long before the roof pops off. So I'm hoping to get to 800,000 this year and...
with 2026, there will be some more equipment that's going to be necessary for this, but I'd like to hit a million and I think it's very doable. I'm actually, that's kind of a conservative goal. So, yeah, there's, there's a huge market out there and we're not even coming close to tapping. I turn down business all the time, which is good and bad.
Yes. I want to talk about that, but before we do that, I want to put a bow on this topic. Do you plan to be in the same kitchen, but with additional equipment and efficiencies to get to that target? Yes.
Yes, we're just finishing up year three in January was year three out of a five year lease. So I'll be signing a renewal on the lease because I think we can probably double in the space that we have with the proper equipment and the right people. And then after that, we'll we'll move, build something new and grand.
Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. So now I want to talk about sales, where you're selling so many things I want to share. I asked you on the podcast, obviously, because as I said in my message to you, like, there's so much BABOYOT in you, the way you run your business, the way you run your social media. And I was like, one morning I was sitting on the couch and I was like, wait a second, why haven't I asked Chris onto the podcast? It's obvious choice. And one of things I really love, and I have this in my notes is just saying no and
building a business on your own terms and in terms of where you're selling and who you're selling to. So as I understand it, you started at the farmer's market and that remains your primary source of like sales and revenue. Is that true?
Yeah, it's I was looking at the numbers the other day in preparation for this. I was thinking we were closer to 80%, but it's about 70 to 75 depending on the week. But still three quarters of our business is from a one farmers market on Saturday, four hours.
yeah, that's right. You do a single market. One market. And so where does the other 30 % of your revenue come from?
It's split pretty evenly between my storefront, which were only open one day a week on Thursday because it's the only day I have enough production for folks to come in. And then our wholesale accounts, we've got about a dozen accounts around the Phoenix Valley area. Three restaurants, a taco truck, three butcher shops, a couple of fish stores, a couple of farm stores. And they're all people whose business ideals align with mine. The butcher shops are grass fed, pasture raised pigs, grass fed cows, pigs owning grass.
But grass fed cows, pasture raised pigs, pasture raised chickens for the meat and the egg laying. A lot of it's Arizona, not 100 % because we don't have everything here. But I want people who care about animal husbandry and give a darn about where the animals come from and how they're treated. So we get requests from lot of butcher shops around town that their feedlot butcher shops,
CAFO, if nobody knows the term, confined animal feedlot operation. It's pigs in a cage, man, and it's not pretty. And I couldn't ever be vegan. I have respect for those who make that decision, but it's not mine. I do want the animals to be well treated while they're alive, though. And so for me, that's really important. I won't stick my stuff on a shelf of somebody who's not committed to those ideals.
I love that. And you mentioned in a separate conversation to me that you say no to opportunities that from the outside look really great, big, have some cache, you know, with different restaurants and things of that nature, that you may not necessarily say no to based on their values and the way that they run business, but for business reasons, you've said no. Can you talk a little bit about that?
We're not doing this for free. There has to be a certain amount of profit. And when I've got people lined up on Saturday morning or on Thursday at our storefront that are wanting to give me the full $12 for the pack of tortillas and somebody else wants to give me eight, our wholesale discount ranges between 30 and 40 percent, depending on the account and what the partnership is. I have to focus on the full retail. And those are the customers that have got us to this point. It's it's.
the families that come shopping, they have made the farmers market and shopping local, their ethos. And those are the people I focus on. So when I have enough or it's somebody that I really want to work with, then I have a little bit in reserve on the wholesale side to where I can say yes to somebody like Chilte, Chef Lawrence Smith. I just got nominated for the James Beard Award. The guy does the most amazing food of all types, but his restaurant is a modern take on Oaxacan Mexican food.
And it's just phenomenal. And to be on his menu means so much to me. Hopefully he's not listening to this. When I tell him I would make him for free if he asked me and I could, but I don't want to. yeah. But it just to be on, the menu of somebody of that level is, huge. So I can say yes to the ones that I want to. And I'll turn down the Mexican restaurant that told me their budget for tortillas this year was 900,000, but they could stretch to 1.2 if I would make them for them.
And I'm like, man, that's more than I'm making in a year. And said, well, you could make just for us. No, thank you. No, thank you.
Yeah, I like to try to take like the brains of people listening and like put it in my brain and then ask a question that I think they're like thinking. And what's coming to my mind right now, and I wonder if anybody has ever like said this to you, like from the outside, it's like, well, Chris, you're at one market, you're selling out at that market, you have more people clamoring to get your product, whether it be more retail sales or more restaurant and wholesale sales. Why don't you?
Good luck.
Like open another kitchen. Why don't you go big, you know, faster? What? Why are you taking your time and doing it according to a specific schedule instead of going just all out and selling to everybody that you possibly could right away?
Because I don't want to fall over from a heart attack. As we sit right now, I'm holding the reins on this horse, trying to trying to slow it down and it's doing everything it can to speed up. My wife, if I didn't have her, I would work seven days a week, 20 hours a day. She makes me take time off. We've started to travel the world the last few years since COVID really. We've been to a dozen countries and been able to from Europe to South America.
Good
And it's absolutely wonderful. And I want to be able to continue to do that. That's also part of the reason I don't do a huge amount of wholesale, especially restaurants, because if you're on their menu, you're committed every single week to make that certain amount. That's part of the agreement on a wholesale side. If I need to take a farmer's market off, I let my customers know a week in advance. Hey, guys, stock up. We're not going to be there next week. Everybody says, OK, enjoy Chile. And then they come back the following week and they double up a little bit. And we have some folks who get irritated. you weren't there. I came just for you.
I can't get everybody to read my social media posts, but it works out pretty well that we can take a little time off. And even this year, I've got a couple of weekends scheduled off that we're not going anywhere. I'm just giving my team a break and we're going to just take the market off and have an easy week. We were at 50 of the 52 markets last year and the two that we missed were scheduled off for the market. There's no market for Thanksgiving.
And I think 4th of July was the other one. So we only took it off because our market managers didn't have a market. And so that's a big part of it. I want to be able to rest. I want to enjoy the fruits of my labor. I'd like to have a day off here and there. And right now I'm running six to seven days a week. Again, I lost a key employee and so I had to, I'm back filling his hours that I lost, but we're, training the team that we have to, to get back there. I would like to.
step back down. So when it comes to the BABOYOT the building of business on your own terms, I was joking with you about it at the conference. I have a ways to go. I definitely have not perfected this, but I have a goal in mind. I see where we're headed and it's encouraging.
Yes. I think what you're saying now is encouraging too. I think the process and the getting there and the being able to say yes to the people that you want to, being able to serve the people that you want to. You recently said that going to the farmer's market is the payoff. Seeing people, hearing from people. If you're bigger, you can't do the things that light you up.
whether that's in the business or outside of the business, like traveling or getting to see your customers. to me, we've talked about here, like slowing down, right? Slowing down to make decisions, slowing down in terms of growth and just doing things on your own terms, but that also means like at your own pace. And bigger is not always better from a financial perspective and otherwise. And so I think the big takeaway for me from what I've
seen and heard from you over the last week is like we know where we're going and we know the schedule to get there and we're gonna stick to it as best we can.
So in the seven years, nearly seven years, I've never shrank the size of my dough ball or my tortilla. It's always been a one ounce, a two ounce and a four ounce dough ball. I've never shrank the size of my packaging. It's always been 10 in a pack for my big burritos, six in a pack. And actually it used to be five and I went to six because I had people tell me they needed the full six pack. So the ability to maintain the integrity of my product is very important to me. And to take a giant leap forward,
to move into a new facility is well over a million dollars to build out what I could see future in order to maintain the quality. So then I have to get an investor. There's loans available, but they're tougher at that level. So if I get an investor, then somebody is going to be fine combing my product and going, well, we could make it cheaper if we went with a cheaper flower or the cheaper large. So everything that I railed against for 40 minutes at the conference is exactly what
somebody would want me to do before I moved into this place. I actually did meet with a couple of investors on a smaller scale, you know, $50,000 investment here, $30,000 investment there. And one of the guys was like, well, we can get you into Costco and in this sprouts. Well, no, that's, that's not the path for this, but your volume would be huge. Volume really doesn't mean much to me quality and profit. The profit that we get from that. So we can pay our staff and I can pay my bills. I don't want to make a dime.
per pack of tortillas, but sell a million of them. That doesn't bring me any joy. So the path forward may be very different than most people think I should take, but I don't really care too much.
Yeah. Do you ever consider your customers being the investors in your business similar to like Boichick Bagel in their first couple of years? Yeah. mean, there's lots of different ways to do it. Boichick used a particular platform where people made the investment and then they got their monthly return.
Like in a crowdfunding style.
So was very, very organized. wasn't like free tortillas for a year, you know, anything like that. It was like, you're going to give us money and we're going to make a return on your investment for you. you know, and then if you, if like, we're going to be true to our word and pay you back. And then when we're ready to do it again, you know, you can choose to do it again, if you want to. And I believe they did two rounds of funding that way from their local community to help sort of spur.
when they were ready that like facility that they wanted to build to sort of like level up. Just curious if that's ever crossed your mind. Yes.
It has another bakery here in town. They used Mainvest, which was one of the bigger ones. And I had looked into doing that. It was attractive. I had some hesitation, just kind of gut hesitation. I couldn't really articulate why the world's a crazy place. And I had some doubts and I was taking a big step and I kind of told myself, I guess that if I, if I fail,
a bank can come after me, but I don't mind disappointing a bank. I don't want to disappoint hundreds of customers that each pitch in a certain amount of money. And then actually main vest just went under a couple of months ago. They're gone. And so if you were an investor in that, the, let's say you invested in a bakery, if the bakery hadn't used up all the money, the money disappeared. So the bakers didn't get their money and the customers don't get their money back. And there's no way, cause it was an SEC regulated deal. And
there's no way to get the money back. So happy that I didn't do it if I'm being perfectly honest. But yeah, I have heard of Boichick and I've seen a few others that have done it and it seems like a great idea and I don't have any great reason against it. I just didn't feel that that was right for me at the time.
Yeah.
Yes, I get that. I think that's another BABOYOT thing. It's like, is the way that makes you feel the most comfortable? A, do you want to take on any debt at all? B, how much feels good? C, what feels like the most appropriate place for you to take that debt on? Who do you want to owe?
And in full disclosure, we did just take on a line of credit. But the nice thing about that is I'm only paying interest on what I utilize. And so I have I have a large amount available, but I can really take my time and find the right equipment to find the right minivan without having to spend it all at once. Like if you take out a hundred thousand dollar loan, you're having to pay interest on that entire amount, whether or not you utilize the entire thing. So the line of credit made made sense for me math wise.
Yeah. Yeah. We've never really talked about line of credit, I don't think on the podcast, but I'm a big fan of that. We have a line of credit for our business as well. It's like when you just need that little something extra, like right now, you know mean? To move you forward. I love to draw from line of credit and then you pay it back and then they're like, here, have more. Okay, thank you very much. And I don't take it. There's just a pretty number.
sitting and you know, sitting there saying if you're ready and you need me, I'm here for you. You know what I mean? And that makes me very happy. it feels like responsible borrowing to me. And it also feels like I don't know why I'm using the word training wheels so much here. But it's like, let me practice. Let me practice on making an investment and being able to pay it back sort of over and over again. And maybe they get bigger and bigger over time or maybe not. But yeah, it's a way.
I like that I sure as hell I get a lot more than like a Shopify loan or a stripe loan or any of those crazy expensive loans that no one should ever get.
When I when I did my I almost talked about those so when I did my presentation one my initial title was you suck at math because people don't run the numbers and They they see the Shopify or the square the stripe that you qualify. I just got an email today I qualify for fifty three thousand nine hundred dollars and these are the payback terms and so I did the math on what the APR was it was like 48 % APR and It's that's outrageous, but people do it all the time. They're like that's quick and it's easy the money just shows up on my account. It's good
It's the easy approval process, right? And here's the thing. If you make, you start making more money, then the APR actually goes up because you're paying back the loan even for it. it's like, yeah, mind boggling, but, but people are in need and it's, it's predatory, right? It's predatory lending. Like here's the, you're a small business owner and I could give you access to 50 grand, you know,
percent
That's very attractive. people need that where they're going to take it, we got to talk about it here to make sure that people know they have other options. Wild. Wild. Bunkers. Absolutely bonkers, yes. I'm curious, I don't know when this episode airs if we will have already had our book club for Beyond Entrepreneurship 2.0 or not, but I'm...
I'm reading it right now and I'm in the thick of the mission vision values part of the book. And it's just really like reinvigorating for me a lot of things. Just thinking about what are we here to do and asking, you know, and are we doing it and is our mission big enough and all of those things. And I'm curious if when you took over the business, if you, did you take on any of the mission vision values from the original owner?
And or did you sit down and say, is what I want this version of the business to be real.
Neither. I bought this business as an escape. I had a job that I absolutely positively hated. I had been looking for other work. It wasn't coming along. Most of my life has been just kind of taking whatever job paid the bills. I never really did anything for me. Done everything from being a bouncer to waiting tables and working at a motorcycle shop and selling furniture. And I was a dishwasher mechanic for a few years for restaurants around the valley. And I was always looking for something else to do, looking for the next thing.
And when this opportunity came up, I knew I was going to be making less than half the money working over twice the hours. And I told my HR that in the exit interview and she kind of laughed at me, she goes, we have some work to do, don't we? And I said, yes, yes, you do. I didn't have a mission statement. I just wanted out. But as I originally when I when I bought the business, my thought was I was going to go to every Mexican restaurant, every taco truck in the valley, and I was going to make them delicious tortillas. And we were going to take over the restaurant world.
And then about two months in, had my first farmer's market and realized a lot of people wanted to pay me full price. Well, then I realized being in the farmer's market environment that I wasn't eating very healthy. I was eating out a lot and I was shopping at the grocery store for a lot of my stuff, a lot of processed food. So I started eating better and that led me to want to make my product better. So then we switched from a Costco style flour to a locally milled and sourced, unbleached, non-enriched flour.
That came with a little price increase. Then I found a ranch that was a little bit more aligned with the animal husbandry standards that I had and have. And so we were able to switch our lard producer and we were just using iodized sea salt from Smart and Final, or not sea salt, iodized like processed salt. And then I found a local sea salt manufacturer. So these were incremental changes for the positive that I didn't really plan on doing when I started. I just wanted to make good tortillas that
were traditional and authentic and the base recipe was that, but it wasn't the highest quality. They were tasty, but they could be better. And so that's, that was the path that I took was to make them as good as possible, as authentic as possible and as healthy as possible. And, that the mission to elevate the world's tortilla game, or at least the country's tortilla game has come out of that. want the, restaurant that tells me they've got
a $900,000 budget and they can go to 1.2, well tell the person that's making your tortillas now that you'll stretch to 1.2 if they go back to the way they used to do them. The thing I hear over and over again is, well, my current guy, their quality has been slipping. They were good five years ago, but little by little they keep getting worse. Well, they're trying to keep your business by being cheap. And if you tell them you can stretch an extra $300,000 a year, guess what? They'll go back to the way they used to do it and you'll get what you want.
I can't make enough for everybody. It's just not possible. So I'm hoping my underlying goal is that with my presence and my quality and my branding, as we become more well known, other people will step up their game too.
love that, the idea of don't come to a new vendor to say, you can have my business. And by the way, I'll spend more than I'm currently spending with my present vendor. And instead talk to your current vendor and say, hey, you can make it in this way. I I love that so much because there's exponential value in that, right? Like to the people who own the company,
you know, that that's currently making the tortillas, but then also to the farmers and the ranchers who are growing and creating, you know, those higher level, higher quality products and ingredients to make that. mean, that's just, that's the dream, right? that- Absolutely. Create more opportunity for that food to flow into the food system. I love that so much. You don't have aspirations to be a national brand.
from what I understand. hear that echoed in you saying, I can't feed everybody. can't make enough tortillas for everybody. Can you talk a little bit about the vision for how big you want the business to be and sort of what your beliefs are around that?
If I could get this thing running on its own to where I had like $10,000 a month, just free flow income coming in and my wife and I could travel full time, I'd be real happy with that. I don't know what the numbers look like to get that. I've kind of sorted on the math and we'd have to about double from where we are now, which is totally doable. But I also like being involved and I like coming up with my specialty recipes and I like going to the farmer's market. And so while it's kind of a nice little, I don't want to call it a pipe dream because that sounds unattainable. While it is a dream to
just travel the world full time. think I'd go kind of nuts. My wife would not. we'll let her travel full time and I'll travel half time. I enjoy the creative process more than I do the people management. I have a wonderful team, but the bigger your team gets, the less personal it gets right now. I've got a crew of five that I can take care of on a very personal level. When you know, I see some baseball tickets come up and I know that Grayson loves spring training. Hey buddy, how about you take off early?
and go to this spring training game because I know it's your team. I can do that. I can't do that with 100 employees. So so there's that heart aspect of the business that I don't want to lose. There's also the additional logistics that come in with shipping. All our major providers, USPS, UPS and FedEx have all gotten worse over the years and lose more packages and take longer time. I shipped the package a couple of weeks ago to a friend in New Jersey and made it to her in two days. I did the exact same shipping to somebody in North Carolina and it took eight.
It's roughly the same distance and I don't understand why and it was both priority shipping so with the perishable products then that adds in a whole nother a whole nother list of obstacles and Honestly, I kind of like keeping it simple. I show up at the market people show up We've built a good brand and it's it's fun and I really value the fun aspect of it I would like to ship at some point. I've got lots of customers that have moved away and I feel bad that
You know, they don't have anything. I have kind of taken on an informal consulting role with a few places. There's a gentleman in Hawaii that I've been talking to a couple of ladies that work for a nonprofit in New Orleans that were working with refugees and immigrants to help them teach them food skills. And so I helped her pick out equipment and develop a recipe for their their product. So that was a lot of fun. There's another guy in West Virginia that has no restaurant experience whatsoever, but he started and he loves it and he just needed some help.
another guy from North Carolina that came out and spent four days with us in the kitchen. And I haven't charged for any of this. I'm probably leaving money on the table, but I'm just trying to spread some knowledge so people can make a better, a better tortilla. The fellow in North Carolina was so grateful. He came out, he was taking a small batch handmade recipe and trying to scale it, but didn't quite understand why he was doing some of the things. He just knew that's what Nana did. And so once we talked about the why,
And that because of the new process, wasn't necessary anymore. I shaved half of his time off of a batch of making dough. just cause he didn't know why he was doing what he was doing. He just, that's what he was told. So if I can share some knowledge and help other tortilla manufacturers around the country, it's kind of like going national, I guess, but without all the stress and a little bit more reward.
amazing.
Yeah, a little less expensive, too. Yeah. I think it's so great. mean, we've talked about it before here on the podcast. Obviously, I believe in regional food systems and, you know, if every region, even multiple regions within a single state has an amazing tortilla maker, an amazing nut butter maker, an amazing bread maker, anybody, you name it. There's one. Yeah, we could feed a lot of people. Those businesses can make a
good amount of revenue, a good amount of profit. They can lift up other people in their community and then it can be repeated over and over and over again. The quality of food is so much better when it's close to home. And I understand that not every city and state has access to everything and there are limitations, but we haven't even begun to scratch the surface, I don't think, in terms of what we can do regionally and locally. And so I just think it's so amazing.
that you're living and you're really being an example of spreading knowledge and information so that thriving regional tortilla companies can exist. That's amazing. That's the goal. Well done.
Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. I had a business advisor early on in the process and I mentioned that I give my base recipe away when it comes to adding all the inclusions and the, know, sweet tortillas and flavored. don't, that's taken a long time and a lot of trial and error and I keep that close to the, close to the chest. But my base recipe, it really isn't any different than what your typical Nana is making for her family. It's flour, salt, fat and water.
And it's the same ratio as everybody else, but some of our technique and the rest time and the temperatures that we're cooking at, those are some of the secret sauce. And I don't mind sharing that because you're going to figure it out anyways, if you do it long enough. and the business advisor was telling me that I needed to have a nondisclosure for all my employees. And I said, if they want to go start one on the other side of town, they're going to see how much work it is, knock themselves out. And, her husband told me, he said, don't you ever share your recipe? And I said, do you know how to cook a steak? Yeah.
Can you cook a good steak? Well, yeah. Do you still go to a restaurant so somebody else can cook a steak for you? He was like, well, yeah. I said, OK. You don't always want to do it yourself. So giving that information out doesn't hurt me any because it's a lot of work. And you're still going to come back to me for those special occasions. Or you just don't want to do it on your own. People still go out to eat even though they know how to cook that steak.
Yeah. Amazing. Okay. Last thing, two things, if I'm being honest, that I want to talk about. One of them is Porcupine Project. Yeah. I love this idea. Can you tell people what it is?
Okay, porcupine is just a code word. When I was a little kid, I grew up in Tucson and the kid across the street, his name was Eric. We used to play together all the time and we would always build forts and our secret code to get in was always porcupine. I don't know why it was just porcupine. A couple of years ago when COVID was first kicking off and everything was awesome, right? We always, not always, we'd often have leftover tortillas at the end of our Wednesday night market. So was doing two markets at that time. And I would tell folks, if you come within the last 15 minutes,
I've got leftovers. don't want them go to waste. Just work the word porcupine into a sentence. And I know we're on the same page. I saw porcupine on the way here or porcupines are just a bunch of little pricks or I want to know about the porcupine tortillas, whatever. And your order was free. I just gave you the tortillas. I didn't care if it was one pack or four packs. I just wanted to make sure you had food on the table. A lot of people were losing their jobs at the time. So then that market closed down because of COVID. So we switched to doing that at our Saturday market and we had a fair amount of people take us up on it.
So I was using a Walmart flower and a cheaper oil because I given them away for free. And I had a couple of customers say, we're going to fund that for you. So they started giving me money so I could use proper ingredients and that money mostly went away, but I was able to keep funding it because the rest of the company grew. So, it's not a huge amount of people that take us up on it. Nobody's ever abused it. I was really nervous in the beginning that people, you know, like,
Yeti accidentally dropped a fake discount code or a wrong discount code for 50 % off on their website and the whole world went at it. I was afraid of stuff like that and I've never had anybody even come close. Most people are like, is it okay if I get two? I'll give you three or four. Let's feed your family. So now we actually have folks who will buy their own tortillas and then they'll get a couple of porcupine packs for the neighbor that they know lost their job. And that really makes my heart happy that people are able to spread it out.
I don't really have any limits on on what you get. I try and shy away from the specialties just because. Just because, but the all the my traditional tortillas, I don't care if it's vegan or gluten free or what, if that's what you need to feed your family, let us help. And it's it's been good.
So I learned about Porcupine Project at the Intense Conference and you brought it up in response to someone saying, like, I don't want to price anybody out of the market. I touched on that earlier. And I firmly believe in your response, which was when you charge what you need to charge for your product and your business is successful, you can give back to your community in different ways. And it might look different for every single business. And the way that you're choosing to do it is to say, you know, I will give
product to someone who needs it. And here's this code word and it's like put your mask on right before you before you help someone else. You're able to do that because you're charging what you need to charge for your product.
Absolutely and and in the grand scheme of things the cost of ingredients really isn't that high anyways So it's a carbohydrate and it's it's pretty economical that way and I don't mind donating the labor. So it's okay. I If I'm being told it honest, I wish more people took us up on it. We our market is in a little more affluent area it's staunchly upper middle class and I think sometimes people don't come to our market because of where it is if they're on the
economically depressed side. So I try and post about it and we have some folks that come into our storefront that take us up on it here and there. now at this point I've actually our farmers market does not take EBT or snap. And so I've instructed my employees that if anybody ever asks, if we take it, that's a porcupine order. We don't charge them anything. We're not doing half off. That's they can just take it because they've obviously qualified for, for need at some point with, with the program. So I don't need to be a means tester. Yeah. We'd like to give more if we could.
Yeah, that's amazing. And the last thing I want to touch on is your social media presence. You are a local brand for all intents and purposes, and you've got tens of thousands of followers on Instagram, which I found interesting and fascinating. And then you shared that growth really comes from collaboration and celebrating others and also having some weekly routine in terms of your flavor drops and stuff like that.
Was Instagram, social media in general, always a part of the plan for like spreading the word about the company and growing or did something that just kind of happened along the way?
Well, so I bought it in 2018. Instagram was pretty strongly on the scene by then. Facebook was being dominated by political conversation. So I really didn't focus on Facebook too much until just recently. I knew Instagram had potential to be good, but I tried to be the foodie influencer with the, you know, the top shots, the flat lays. I even took a course on food photography and proper lighting. And I was trying to be that guy and it just wasn't fun at all. And then
I would just do stupid videos. We had a storm come in and I pretended I was a weatherman getting blown away. I got more views on that than I had it on anything. And I'm like, all right, I don't take myself very seriously. I just wanted to have fun with it and it resonated with folks and we've, grown through that. And then we use so many other vendors products in hours from spices and honey and chilies. have a local chili roaster that we're able to use. And every time we tag them, they tag us back and we
get to capitalize on each other's audiences. And we've grown. And so I've got 15,000 followers, give or take, and something like 90 % are within our Phoenix metro area. So it's very targeted. I've got people in Scotland and Ireland, and that's great. Come visit sometime, guys. But most of my followers are people with actual potential to be customers. And that's one of the reasons I've stayed away from TikTok.
their algorithm spreads you out for entertainment purposes. And since I don't ship and I'm not really planning on doing that anytime super soon, I wanted to focus on the platform that gave me the most local reach. And I found Facebook to be helpful in that too over the last year, but mostly Instagram has been the one. But yeah, like I was telling somebody, stop looking at numbers, stop looking at your followers, stop looking at when you lose 20 because you had said something that somebody disagreed with or they were bots that were getting cleaned out. doesn't really matter.
Do what makes you happy. Talk about what you nerd out on. If you love the chemistry of the cook or you love the beauty of the design or you love the social aspect, lean into that. Sometimes you have to talk about the other things, but lean into the thing that gives you joy. And that is so infectious. People will resonate and not everybody, but your people will. And those are the ones that are going to become your customers. The ones that really
enjoy the hyper local nature of your product or the care that you put into it or the quality of your artwork on your cookies and your cakes. Man oh man if you share what makes you happy people are going to come along for the ride.
I live in Los Angeles and I will never miss a post by you because they make me smile. I sure as heck, if I was traveling, I mean, I was lucky, I only had to go to San Diego to get your tortillas, but if I was traveling to Arizona, you would be a destination for me, right? Because I have so much fun just taking in what you're doing. So thank you for being entertaining.
Well, thanks.
You're welcome. That makes my heart happy. Thank you.
Well, Chris, I know that you have a business to run and you've been so kind as to hang out with me for nearly an hour now. Thank you so much. For those who are not yet following you on Instagram or who want to learn more about your business and your product, where can they find you?
It's really easy. Instagram and Facebook is at Benny Blanco Tortillas. We have no relation to the guy that just got engaged to Selena. Don't even ask. It's not there's no relation. So yeah, B E N N Y is Benny Blanco B L A N C O Tortillas with two L's. If you want to check out our website is Benny Blanco Tortillas dot com. And if you have any questions, I answer all the emails. I get the DMS on Instagram. I'm happy to share that recipe with you. If you're if you're looking, I'll just send you an email with the recipe and instructions and you can go from there.
Amazing. We'll put the links in our show notes too, so if you didn't get to jot that down or you don't want to go back and re-listen, you can click through and get the links to find Chris and Benny Blanco. So again, thank you, Chris, so much. This was amazing. You're welcome. Yeah, we'll talk to you again soon.
for asking, I appreciate the invite.
Alright, sounds good.
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