Building a Bold, Authentic Business with Live Loud Foods

 
 

(Listen on Apple or Spotify. Full transcript below.)

for live loud foods, a unique brand identity, customer insights and financial acumen are ingredients for success.

I recently had the pleasure of chatting with Keesha, the vibrant founder behind Live Loud Foods who has taken her love for cooking and transformed it into a deliciously unique brand. From her experience on "Chopped" to her journey through the culinary landscape, Keesha offers valuable insights into the challenges and triumphs of launching a food business in this one of a kind BABOYOT (building a business on your own terms) episode. 

From Engineering to Culinary Entrepreneur

Keesha's journey to Live Loud Foods began in a realm far removed from the culinary world. With a degree in information systems engineering, she initially found herself navigating corporate environments that didn't resonate with her creative spirit. After a series of transformations—including being laid off during the 2008 financial crisis—Keesha decided to embrace her love for cooking. Her journey into the culinary arts led her to culinary school and eventually to starting her own personal chef business. This path illuminated her passion for not just creating food, but for building a brand that reflects her vibrant personality.

The Birth of Live Loud Foods

Through a series of pop-up dinners and the encouragement from those around her, Keesha launched Live Loud Foods, with a focus on flavored nuts that stand out in the crowded snack market. Her initial inspiration came from a simple yet memorable incident where her candy pistachios were a hit—so much so that one guest even attempted to steal a bag! Keesha recognized the potential of her unique flavors, such as spicy jerk nuts, and began to explore the possibility of bringing them to a wider audience.

Category Disruption with a unique Brand Identity

In an industry saturated with standard flavors and average branding, Keesha’s mission is to disrupt the nut category by infusing her products at Live Loud Foods with personality and purpose. "It's about living your bold, authentic life," she explains, emphasizing how each flavor tells a story about her heritage and the vibrant culture she represents. 

However, building a brand is just as much about communicating that mission as it is about creating great products. Keesha highlights the importance of effective marketing and working with people who understand her vision to ensure that her brand message resonates with customers. For instance, working with a savvy designer to create eye-catching packaging has been paramount to capturing consumer interest. 

setting Financial goals for long-term growth

With a great product and brand in hand, Keesha quickly learned that launching a food business is also about understanding the financials. "Launching a business is not cheap," she reflects. After starting Live Loud Foods, Keesha realized that costs can quickly add up—from research and development to packaging and marketing. She found herself drawn to financial forecasting, realizing that knowing what it takes to get a product off the ground is essential for sustainability.

Moreover, Keesha emphasizes the distinction between revenue and profit—a poignant realization for many entrepreneurs. "You can hit your sales numbers, but if your costs are too high, you’re just working to stay afloat," she cautions. Understanding this difference has helped her set more meaningful financial goals that contribute to long-term growth.

the value of Gathering Data for Decision making

Keesha is keenly aware of the importance of conducting thorough research to find the right market niches for her brand.  One of her key strategies is to gather data diligently from the independent stores she currently sells to. This allows her to understand customer preferences and adjust her product offerings accordingly. For example, if feedback indicates a flavor is too sweet or too spicy, or product isn’t moving, she takes that feedback seriously. By fostering relationships with store owners and working with them to make her product a success she ensures she has the real-world insights needed to iterate her product line and grow effectively.

Taking a slow and steady approach to growth has proven beneficial, as it enables her to build meaningful connections in the market without spreading herself too thin. 

balancing Growth and Impact

When asked about her ultimate vision for Live Loud Foods, Keesha aspires to become a household name while maintaining authenticity and connection to her community. The idea of being a national brand excites her, but she is clear that it must come from a place of integrity and alignment with her values. She is committed to making key decisions based on not just revenue but on true impact—impact for her community, for her customers, and for herself as a founder.

Keesha's story serves as a powerful reminder that the journey of entrepreneurship is not just about profit margins but about cultivating a brand that reflects one’s passions and values. Through her vibrant personality and thoughtful approach to food and business, Keesha exemplifies what it means to live loud and embrace the entrepreneurial spirit.

Hear more from Keesha & Sarah

Tune into The Good Food CFO podcast to hear Keesha’s full story and conversation with Sarah.
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Episode Timeline

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Growth

02:58 Chef Keesha: A Culinary Journey

05:46 Brand Strategy and Financial Acumen

09:10 Mindset of a Founder

12:03 The Birth of Live Loud Foods

15:02 Mission Beyond Food

17:55 Marketing and Communication Strategies

20:50 Product Positioning and Pricing

24:04 Sales Channels and Data Gathering

26:55 Engagement and Customer Loyalty

34:56 Navigating Feedback and Market Adaptation

39:47 Data-Driven Decision Making

42:05 Vision for Disruption in the Nut Category

48:51 Understanding Revenue vs. Profit

52:59 Challenging Business Narratives and Critical Thinking

Full Episode Transcript

You are listening to the Good Food CFO podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Delevan, joined as always by our producer, Chelsea Stier. How are doing, Chelsea? Sarah, I'm doing so good. We are about halfway through season 12 and we are seeing so much engagement from our audience and it's just bringing me so much joy. We're seeing our downloads increasing, like listens increasing. We've got

more followers on Apple than we ever have. We're seeing the same thing on YouTube. Our ratings are going up. So I am in a very happy place. And if you're listening and you haven't done so yet, this is actually your reminder because every time you rate the podcast, leave a review, subscribe on YouTube, follow us on Apple, it helps us get the podcast out to more people. And if you

have already done those things, I personally want to say thank you so much. If you haven't, I'm going to put a link down in the show notes this week. So get in there, subscribe, follow, rate, review, because it really is the number one free way that you all can help us grow this show. I love that you're sharing that data and that you've become a data nerd since joining as the producer of this podcast. It makes my data nerd heart so happy.

That's really, really awesome. And we do read every review. We do check in on our ratings as they're growing. They're all five star, which is just so stellar and makes us so, so proud. And we check our inbox too, because there are a lot of folks who send us really lovely emails and we appreciate that as well. And I know from the data that BABOYOT episodes are amongst our favorite style of episode amongst our listeners. And we have a really

I think interesting, fun, deep, BABOYOT episode today. We're sharing my conversation with Chef Keesha, who is the founder of Live Loud Foods. like so many guests here on the podcast, her career began outside of food, but her career in food started at the Natural Gourmet Institute for Culinary Arts in New York City, where she mastered the art of organic, vegan, and health-supportive diets.

With that and a BS in information systems engineering, which I mentioned because I have a very similar degree and we bonded over it in the episode, chef Keesha of Live Loud Foods really does have a unique blend of culinary expertise and business acumen that she brings to live loud foods and that you can see throughout her story from NYC's fine dining catering scene to making waves as a finalist on Food Networks Chopped. And today as the owner of the Bronx based

live loud foods where she really is shaking up the snack world with bold, globally inspired candied nuts and a mission that goes beyond food to inspire people to live their own bold life that is full of flavor and purpose. first of all, Sarah, I do still need to go back and check out her episode of Chopped. cannot wait to see what she did. Yeah. She made it sound like quite the experience.

Yeah, on the on the episode. But I really loved hearing your conversation and and like right from the beginning. I think even before Live Loud Foods, right, as you named all the other things that Keesha has done her. As you said, acumen and ability to really think about her messaging and her

way of just 100 % portraying who she is. Yeah. I think we talk a bit on the podcast about the necessary connection between finances and your brand strategy, right? Because if they're out of sync, the business typically doesn't work, right? It's like, it's not a well-oiled machine.

It runs a little clunky, can be a little hard to grow, can be a little hard to reach people. I do agree with you that Keesha of Live Loud Foods comes across as the kind of person who fully knows who she is, and she is unapologetically herself always and through her brand. And the other thing I think is really interesting that couples that sort of brand strategy with financial or business strategy is the way that she's going about

growing the business. And I don't want to spoil too much. I want people to hear that in the episode. But I loved what she shared around that. And I think that's going to be super valuable to other founders who are listening and who are in sort of the same stage as her or even a little bit earlier in their business. Yeah. And thinking about how they're going to get there. I also really thought it was interesting because there's a couple of moments where you guys are talking about kind of more mindset stuff, right?

like the mindset of a founder, the things that are kind of told at large in the food industry, and how that all comes together in the way that you run your business. And I think I cannot wait for other founders to hear that. Yeah. There was a moment during the recording where

I don't know if people experience this in this way, but how I describe it is where my brain feels like it opens up and just a whole new idea or a whole new realization just sort of drops in. She says something, you guys will know exactly when it happens. I go, they're like, for me, it was very obviously in listening to the episode, what I was experiencing, you know what I mean? And going, okay, well, let's dig into

this, let's really have a conversation about what is truth and what is something we've been told for a long time or just something that we've accepted as the way. And I am just so delighted that Keesha of Live Loud Foods went there with me and was willing to have a really open and honest conversation and sort of discovery together.

And again, I'm trying to say but not say because I don't want to spoil anything from the main episode, which is probably a sign for us to just get to it and stop teasing. I was literally just going to say that. I'd say we get on. Yeah, let's do it.

As a Good Food founder, do you ever feel like your work is done in a silo? Is it difficult to feel confident in your business and financial decisions because you don't have a sounding board? Well, in our weekly CFO office hours, you'll not only get the chance to work shoulder to shoulder with the Good Food CFO herself, Sarah Delevan, but also with a small group of your peers. Together, you can support each other through the work of building a business on your own terms.

passes are available now on our website. Just visit the good food, cfo.com and click on coaching. And now back to the show. Hey, Keesha of Live Loud Foods, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me today. I'm super excited to talk with you. You actually came into the conversation for the podcast because our producer Chelsea has been following you on Instagram as has I. And she was like, Sarah, I just think you need to have Keesha of Live Loud Foods on the podcast. She's such a like.

fun, vibrant brand and I just love what she's doing. We're both so happy to have you on the podcast, which is why I share that story. So I know Chelsea is going to be super excited to hear this recording as she's editing and kind of digging in. I was reading your bio and I have to say that you and I have a little bit of a similar background outside of the food world.

You have a BS in information systems engineering and I have a major. It was like a double major in my undergrad in operations information management. So I have a feeling that you're a bit of a numbers person at heart. I am at heart. Excel spreadsheets make me happy, but I'm not a bookkeeper. There's that line where you're like, you know what? I'm just, yeah, I'm all over the place. But I love, I love the stories that numbers can tell you. Yeah.

Yeah, I love that too. The other thing I saw in your bio is that you were on Chopped. So you are, think, officially the second founder we've had on the podcast who's been in a competitive cooking environment and on TV. I'm just dying to know what was that experience like and how did you do? my goodness. I actually filmed during the end of COVID. wow. I was telling people that. It's like, I'm one of the hardest TV food network shows. I wasn't looking to even

I didn't apply officially. found me. think that's story of my life. People just find me. I'm like, you have good energy. I guess I have good energy. It was like, you know what? I guess the world is telling me something. it. Yeah. Like, maybe I shouldn't like do it. My goal was like, I just need to make it through the first round. That's it. I just need to not get sick and make it through the first round. Cause you don't want to be that first person to get a chop. Right. Yeah. But I ended up as the finalist. I didn't win, but you know, the dessert round, I made it too. So I'm amazing.

I'm so proud of myself and it's, save, I don't know which channel it's on because I know things different different streaming systems. if you Google, let's guess Alton Brown's maniacal baskets challenge episode two, you'll find me. I'm going to check it out. I'm going to see if it's on my, a sponsor, obviously Hulu account. I can find it there. So how did you go from, you know,

What you studied in school, as so many of us do, you you study something in school and you sort of land in a very different place probably than where you imagined. But how did you get into food and how did your career in this industry, not CPG particularly, but just like the food industry in general, get started? I always say like a lot of things are kind of like inside of you, but it's not something you get pushed into. Yeah. So we have both mentioned, you know, our majors and undergrad. So I was more so geared towards math and science. So kind of

picked a major of engineering, you know, out the bucket. So I'm like, okay, fine. You meet, see me. like, I'm not really the office type of person. a lot of things in my life, but I've worked in different nonprofits, different businesses and kind of more so I think my personality blends towards smaller, smaller companies that are more mission-based or just same working towards changing the world. Yeah. But then it came to a point where I want to change the world. need money.

So got my MBA, ended up at Bank of America. It was a cool experience, but I don't think, once again, you learn about yourself. Big corporate enemies are not really my jam. I got laid off. I'm happy. I got a severance bond. It was kind of that, I think a lot of people have that story. Like I wouldn't have gone to be an entrepreneur per se, even though something, being entrepreneurial like is something that's in me.

quit my job to say do something totally different. But that moment gave me that pause. So the crash of 2008 gave me that space to kind of play around and see what else I wanted to do. I like to cook. I like rum cakes. I started selling rum cakes on a basic level. That's amazing. You know, from that point, went to culinary school. So I started more in the focus of vegetarian and vegan, you know, cooking. And so just going through, just learning more about the industry, worked for different camera companies.

built up a personal chef, you know, business and catering and just keeps evolving. it's now what there was 13 years. Wow. In that of living life in the, you know, the culinary field. So I guess I say I found a home. At I found a lane was good at it. Loved it. I think you have to be crazy to be, you know, in the field. I would agree with that. It is definitely on your feet. You're creating, you're working this aspect of business to it. There's the good.

great point of food, the people you meet along the way. it goes into this other realm of life where you're about to turn 40. Like I said, now 10 or so years into this business, I'm like, think I'm able to do more. What does more actually look like? Talking about building businesses that create wealth. So was really that point, I want to do more. I don't know what it is.

I never really go, you know, the answer to UGCon comes to me. So then I used to have pop-up dinners and sort of the story I usually tell people was like during this pop-up dinner, I had the candy pistachios on top of a first course. story short, a couple of times, one time that I gave a bag as a gift, one of the bags got stolen. And I was like, you know what? One might be something. And...

I was like, right, because it wasn't one day you wake up, I'm, you know, solving the world's problems through candy nuts. Yeah. Well, if it's good enough to get stolen, obviously, you know, people will start, you know, people do tell that, it's great. You know, I'll buy it. You sell it. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, the numbers like how much candy nuts you have to sell to make a make a living and not really be in that space to say, want to focus on figuring out how to, you know, do that. So give it another year or so.

be more in the headspace and encouragement from my partners. Like, no, you'll be a CPG founder.

I talked to a couple of people too about the candy nuts. Like, yeah, you might be onto something. If you actually look at the aisle, what's on there? What's on the shelf? Yeah. So that was the journey of how the nuts became and why. Yeah. Why does it start? So I want to go back a little bit to like you not sort of things coming to you. I talked recently in a newsletter about

any sort of like mini, I call them like mini evolutions or like mini erosions or moments of change that have happened in my career. Some of them are very big and were forced upon me kind of like you're being laid off. A similar thing happened to me and then I had this like series of like jobs that I got and then they were like, actually, we're sorry. We want to have you but like we can't. And it was like

something different happening each time. It happened like three times in a row. And I remember going, getting to the point of being like, okay, I can't even be upset about this because clearly these are, I'm on the wrong path. Like there's something else that I'm supposed to be doing. then consulting, not even in the finance realm, but in the sourcing realm sort of came and then, and then that evolution happened. But like I talk about how

there's this like, for me, it's usually a level of discomfort that I start to feel every day. And then I go, well, what is this discomfort about? And then once I figure it out, I'm like, I have to now change. I have to evolve. I have to let go of something, you know, from before. And so it sounds like there was like something similar that happens to you. And when you had how I'm just curious about how the changing the world for you and the nuts.

comes together because sometimes people will say to me, I'm just selling this product or I'm just doing this. And I think, but you didn't start it just to do that. And so how do we remember the mission and the purpose of this thing that some days feels small and we have to remember that it is actually bigger than the bag of nuts? I mean, you summed it up jokingly, right? I have a nut now what?

You know, it's building the business, building the brand that gives it life. It's just a candy nut. You know, you might just, right. Is you think it's just a nut, giving it this personality, knowing that you can sponsor different events that means something to you, even who I am. He's like, wait, I'm from the Bronx. Brooklyn gets a lot of, know, you see a lot of no Brooklyn based bands. Like, no, I can represent the Bronx. But what does that mission that that thing that's gonna get you up in the morning? Cause

Sometimes you just want to pull the sheets over your head. You're like, why am I doing this to myself? The point that we can make some noise, either in the flavors that you come out with, the messaging that you're pushing out, and then seeing what's already on the aisle. like, these brands are boring. Same thing over and over. like, okay, if I see chili lime one more time.

I'm going to scream. So kind of, right. So kind of lends into the why like really sat in, you know, and it like, okay, I have the opportunity now to kind of reinvent myself. What do I want this company, you know, to stand for? What do I want it to, you know, look like? And it's really for me what the message I want to give the world is live your bold, authentic life. Yeah. And you just watched me live mine along the way. So I think that's so great.

I think it's so cool. then, you've said already today, like people find you. We found you, right, just living your life, building your brand. And there is something contagious about that. It's because of the actions we see you taking on social media. It's because of the flavors of the nuts that you sell. Like you look at your brand and you go, this is different. I didn't connect with

the mission initially of like, she's representing the Bronx, you know, or some of those deeper things, but I'm sure the longer I spent with the brand, those things would come out. And I share that because I think there are, I know that there are some brands listening who will be like, I have a big mission. I have a very specific purpose, whether, and they vary, right, from founder to founder in their personal experience.

But I think a tricky thing is how you communicate that to a wide audience in a way that really resonates. Because you can have a beautiful package. You can have a really great purpose. But if it isn't presented in a way that people can hear it and see it loud and clear and feel it, it doesn't hit. And this is a financial podcast. finance isn't the only thing that matters in a business. That marketing piece and the communication and the connection is critical.

So I'm curious to dig just a little bit further into like, was there a specific strategy around that when you launched and sort of how did you think about that piece of things? Right. I'll go back, I sold rum cakes. I've kind of went through, know, businesses in different iterations. And I think for me, approaching the CPG, the marketing and the packaging,

was Paramount because I knew that even though I had a good product, if you can't get it off the shelf, we're just conversation. you know, over, but marketing and all that, that realm is not my strength. I know what I want to see and I know what I represent, but you said how it gets shown means a lot. know, are people going to resonate with your, you know, message? They don't just like, all right, she just has, you know, know, candy nuts. So

packaging, I worked, you know, somebody else and also with my social media, give a shout out to, you know, Devin. She got my vision. Yeah. You can put too much out there and it will confuse people. That's a good point. Yeah. The vibrancy of the brand and just kind of, you know, me out in the street, living my natural, you know, good life. And hopefully you go out there and live your own life. But I think that's kind of the broad.

you mission. if you start to then the other brands interact with, you know, you see a lot of wellness brands. I would say my product doesn't have the adaptions doesn't have anything extra. You know, those, you know, those elements, but just you holistically just taking care of yourself is that another underlying messaging, but not to put so much out there, then you just like what you really stand for. Yeah. So it's very nuanced.

And I think right coming on a finance podcast, you can kind of talk more about the business aspect that certain things I wouldn't really put on Instagram. If you're going to be in the retail space more so it has to grab people's attention against how you want to grab people's attention. What does live loud actually mean to without any explanation, even on the back of the pack, I put this whole, you here live your authentic life. But if you ask somebody, what does live loudest, you know, off the bat.

It can mean different things. To them, that's in the beauty of branding and marketing is it could look different to different people. You can give a certain concept to different designers, different marketing people. It can look so different. But at the end of the day, I have to stand with the brand. So I want to like who I'm standing next to. Yeah. But I think a good, you know, something I'm hearing in what you say is like, you can have a mission.

and that is important, but then you really do have to think critically about how am I attracting a person just in general? Like how am I getting a person to grab this bag and look at the back to learn more about it? How am I grabbing someone's attention on social media to then be able to take a deeper dive with me into what it means to live loud, which I think is really important. mean, having a great product.

It doesn't mean anything, which sucks. I love it when you it like that. I'm like, yes, it sucks. And certainly if you have a delicious product, people will buy it a second time. But where it doesn't matter is if it's how you get them to buy it the first time. Because another thing a lot of founders say is like, when I'm there and I'm giving samples, it sounds like crazy. But when I'm not there.

it's not moving off the shelf. And so it's like, you have to answer that question of how do we get this product to move off the shelf? And it's like, there's so much passion in food, but that there also has to be a lot of strategy. And that strategy literally runs through every single part of your business, that marketing strategy, the finance strategy, the growth strategy, right? They are all connected. And I'm thinking back to like a

way, way back, I think it was one of the first podcasts I ever recorded with Ali Ball and Katie Mlezeva. And we talked about the three pillars. And it's like really knowing your brand and what your message is. Right. And then that sales pillar, how are you going to get people to actually buy your product? And then that finance pillar of like, how do you have enough money to do it all? Right. And to keep on going and to stay in business, you know?

That is why I two skews right now. How many? Just two. Just two. You go back to the money thing, Well, I wanted to ask you, so the next thing I was going to ask you is I want people who are listening to know a little bit more about the brand sort of in a financial context, I'll say. So like you have two skews. What are the flavors of those skews? And then what is the price point? And the reason I'm asking the price point is because I think it's important to know, like, are you a premium product? Are you

trying to compete on shelf with those more boring brands. Tell us a little bit about that positioning, if you will. I think that was like such an iterative process. I've ate a lot of nuts, did a lot of research like, you know, who's in this category and where I where I want Live Loud to be positioned. So for me, it's like more of a premium, a premium brand. So right now, bag is around the highest. It's nine dollars. And I'm just starting out. So yeah.

I'm at the highest where it can be acceptable to sell my product. Also is pistachios, first of all, so which is a premium knife. I think the next decisions were kind of more from that financial lens. Where am I competing? Who am I competing with? Sahale is kind of like one of the, when people usually think about the flavors I'm coming out with, they're usually kind of like the next person you will think about.

They've been in the game for a long time, been bought out and everything. So their price points are on like $7 and change for their line of the same size. So if you put us against them right now, I will probably lose because I mean, I'll say on price alone, price alone. But I knew that going into this and hopefully, the economy scales is going to work in my favor later on. So the strategy was right. I'm be around this eight to nine.

dollar mark where I can sell, but the people who are buying I know are people who are looking for premium products, but it's a great way for me to enter the market. And then hopefully going up and down a size. So if I go down a size, Lisa, something that, I mean, like I said, it's candy nuts. There's something that you just want to kind of buy as a little add on. it's starting numbers and just like you said, you just watch and just see how people and stores.

react to certain things. You have your hypotheses, you got to see how it plays. know, sorry, it's the lens into the next, you know, flavor. did, I went with maple syrup and all this stuff as my sweeteners, not cheap ingredients, you know, to have. So my third one is probably would be the more financial play. It's like something that's easy to produce, probably a little bit of seasoning. But you talk about cost, you know, the margins.

not sorry, you know, cheap to buy, but definitely have to have that financial lens when it comes to, you know, your product. A lot of us come with this passion, like I want to create the best, greatest thing, but is that I need to make something that's good enough. That I can charge. So I need to write somewhere in that line has to be a buffer. I can always add on these, you know, as a chef, like I can do all this great stuff, but all this great stuff cost. Yeah. The day. So.

You looking through it from that lens, sometimes it hurts. You talk about the sales channels, like which sales channel will be the best to sell it at. And you go through the journey and you know, right. See like how much money you have to play with. Yeah. This stuff and everything else that, know, adds, you know, on. So, so I kind of just stopped. We might had a one year to launch initially three, but I stopped with two. like, I thought about Sriracha. You know,

How many flavors does Sriracha have? I think they just came out with their new one. So I can launch with two and see what happens. I was fine just having two. Yeah, people react to the brands, getting that feedback at the time. But now it's like, okay, I think we've got enough data. We officially can get onto a third one and just validating different. It's always like iterating, figuring these things out. Yeah. I mean, that's a very BABOYOT kind of decision to go.

I feel like three SKUs is a commonly recommended number of SKUs to launch with based on how much shelf space you would take up and the brand would have. But I think going, well, these are two core flavors that we want to have. Maybe one doesn't really make sense to launch with just one, but two does make sense. Financially, I'm going to stop here and see how things go. Because if you go three SKUs and they're just not clicking with people, you've really invested a lot of money.

And now you got to go sort of back to the drawing board, which is also not uncommon to go, we launched it this way and something's not clicking. Maybe we need to do a little bit of a rebrand or maybe we need to change something else or maybe we need to invest in marketing in this particular way. And you got to figure it out. I think the number of brands that launch your products and that it hits perfectly, the first iteration is very, very, very, very, very, very small.

Right. So I think I love that you share that. So tell us where your products are selling now. Which channels are you in currently? Currently Ecom and also just really focused on a lot of independent stores. So business to business focusing on New York City. And if you always crack New York City, I think you can go anywhere. So I have a core group of stores in New York, actually Brooklyn. Nice.

Yeah. Also out in California. So it is great to have that core support. And these are definitely stores that are, they love supporting emerging brands. So just kind of getting feedback just along the way. So you just kind of tweak certain things. just knowing then who their customers are kind of gives you that frame of mind, like, who am I talking to?

I'm like, okay, these are my people. This is my people. I don't need to hear anything else. These are my people. So are you, as you mentioned the word data earlier, so I want to dive into this a little bit. A, I love a slow-ish approach to growth, meaning we're going to launch in our own backyard. We're going to launch with...

smaller stores where we typically can have good communication with the buyer or the owner, right? What are people saying about this product? Are they saying it's too expensive? Are they saying they don't like the flavor? Are they loving it? Is it moving? What is the demographic of this shopper, right? And you can learn a lot from being in these independent stores and testing out almost like testing slightly different markets even within that type of sort of business.

What kind of data specifically are you gathering in terms of the type, not the actual data? It's like a little clipboard, right? Yeah. And then I'd be interested for you to share if you can, then what do do with that info? Just maybe an example or something. Because I think that this is a piece too that people tend to skip over.

They go, well, I got this product. It's delicious. Some people here, you know, in my family, in my close circle at the farmer's market, they're telling me that they love it, which farmer's market is a great place to do that kind of work. But then they kind of go fast in terms of like selling to stores. And it sounds like you're maybe taking a little bit of a slower approach, which I love. And I just want to learn a little more about, guess, I guess, right. That's the strategy in itself is like, you only have so much time in a day and you don't want to waste buyers times.

So premium product, what stores kind of cater to these products? like, what's the data I'm actually trying to get out of it is what are they pricing this product at? Are they taking my suggestion or, you know, marking it up? Which stores are actually moving the product? And is there a through line with these stores?

You have the independent stores, it's a specific neighborhood also, right? So you really want to know who are these people and why are they buying this over and over again? I think that's one of the comments the owner of Fulton's Slow Market gave. He's like, most people just buy something once. He's like, with your nuts, you're buying it again. Okay. I'm to stick that and put it in the back of, you know, like with my head. So guess I got loyal fans.

Hopefully he's using that data too to figure out how come people are only buying one of most of the products he has in the store. This is not a one in done. Something else I've noticed is the stores I think I do better in are stores that really heavily have activity. One was social media for me, but they have social media engagement. So this is another touch point that people can see a brand on different stores.

they have an active social media presence, I'm kind of more keen to hopefully, you we can connect because you can get to learn about a brand through another, you know, channels, opposed to you looking on the shelf. yeah, active social media, what kind of promotions are they doing to drive traffic to their own stores? Because foot traffic is, you know, is key, you know, don't want any of stuff sitting on the shelf. Also, can I work with these stores directly to do sampling? And this goes back to the

once they eat it, they love it, you know, cross fingers, but if they can't convey what it tastes like on your pack, what else can you do to kind of move this, you know, move this along? You know, we can't just sit back as founders thinking that, you know, I the greatest product in the world is going to sell itself. Yep. mean, that's kind of, you know, arrogant, hey, it's like, anything I can do is like, let me know. You want me to stand there outside and sample all day? I'll do it. But definitely in this, that learning phase when people don't know who you, what your brand is. Yeah.

totally brand spanking you, what are you doing for that awareness? I'm just kind of going through the funnel. then for me, it's definitely those points. If I can really work with a store is very key. I see that kind of gets that turnaround. And if it's not moving, you really need to think, is it the store itself, the people go in there, is it the price point? And once again, it of goes into...

what it is and what can you actually change to make any accommodations. If you can't make any changes to accommodations to your packaging or anything else, then you really need to find the stores or the sales channel that will work with what you have. One store told me no. If I would say no with an explanation is always a blessing. He said that the candy pistachios were too sweet and that the jerk nuts were a little bit too spicy on the back end. Okay. Then I had another store who...

basically brought like two more cases of each. So sometimes you got to take things as is, but if you get in the same critique over and over, don't take it See what you want to do with it. So you kind of put it in the back of your head. These two flavors are very odd. Yes, one is sweet, one is spicy. I knew that. But I'm definitely going to want to play on a bigger playing field. I do know I need to put something that's more neutral.

But if you like spice, yeah, the jerkknuck is your best friend. Yeah. I think that's another really kind of point to hit on too. I want to put that aside for a second because I have a question about the when you're collecting this information, I'm just curious, like, are you sitting down once a month or once a quarter and saying, like, how are my sales at the stores that I'm selling to? Or is this sort of just like something that's like always kind of that you're like

always just sort of paying attention to, or do you actually sit down and go, let me look at that sales data? I have a spreadsheet. I'm a 21 tab spreadsheet type of girl. Love that. And if I get a comment or something, just put it, I said, this for the answer is year one for me is really that data collecting here. You know, I would say slower in year one, hopefully year two, you know, like go, go, you know, go, go,

But I do look at the information stores that I have when they made a first purchase and seeing how long does it take for them to sell through or I kind of prompted like, I'm hoping that you can sell through this case within this amount of time. I'm going to follow up with you. And if hopefully you give me a rhyme or reason that you're not going to order or just whatever it is, at least if I did everything I could do, I did it with diligence. I love that. That's one of those things that's like,

It's a level of consistency and paying attention to the information that you have, utilizing the information that you have, which is, again, there's a lot of things that you're saying here that I know that many founders don't do. And that's not a critique of those founders. I think that it's the way we think we should be running a business and it's not slowing down to do this sort of boring stuff of like data entry into a spreadsheet or a customer relationship.

manager, like a CRM software. It's not thinking about how can I sell and invoice my customers in a way where I can track the data or put that into a spreadsheet and set a goal. I think a lot of people are running forward very quickly, as I said before, and so you're just going and going and going. And sometimes you don't realize, wow, these stores haven't ordered from me in a while. And now so much time has passed. It's like, if I go back to them, am I going to get good data?

I mean, would they have ordered from me if I followed up? You kind of miss. think I just love the willingness that you have to go, let me put all of this information into a system. Let me have the capability to look back and see if there's a trend that I should be paying attention to and maybe making an adjustment on. So I just want to call that out as something that I think is great that you're doing. Well, a people don't like to use the word sales. Like for me, seem it's like a

a partnership. make me money, I make you money. so kind of like I said, this independent venture, you're able to go into different stories, you're able to see what else is on the... I guess I do over... I like to analyze things. You go into the store, you see what they already have. How can I compliment what they have? That's amazing. I mean, that's wonderful advice because how do you sell to a store if you don't know what they have? What is the advantage that you bring?

to that store by offering your product there. If there is none because the nut category is already like really filled out, maybe you don't spend your time there. And that's I think the hardest. It's hard when you try to block out the noise like, so you know, this company got into X amount of storage in these, you know, they're in these stores, but to really sit down with the I need to be the stores that make sense for me and my brand.

However, not that may be. Yeah. No, if you have one strong store that you're selling out of, you know, nurture that relationship. It doesn't sound sexy, I guess, you know, one store, but to keeps going back to looking at your numbers. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to be too negative, but it's very much reality that you that I've seen brands launch into, let's say, 30 of XYZ store and they're in and out.

because it just didn't work for one reason or another, right? So it is very sexy to say that we got into 30 stores. It's not very sexy to say that we're no longer in those 30 stores. You don't often hear that. I think it's changing a little bit where, especially on LinkedIn and CPG circles, people are saying like, this went wrong. This didn't work out. They're really kind of sharing their lessons. But I think with most

quote unquote, sexy things that we celebrate. There's a lot that's not talked about in terms of the effects, in terms of the cost, in terms of whether you're profitable or not. You know what I mean? We give you the headline, right? And the story you don't get to read. don't get to see what's really like happening on the inside. And I've forever been telling my clients, do not pay attention to what someone else is doing out in public because you have no idea what's happening.

like privately at home, as I like to say, right? They could be in a thousand stores and be just drowning in debt. You don't know. So unless you know the full story, do not compare yourself to another brand. Unless you know whether they are like, are they funded? Are they not funded? Right? Unless like, how do you compare yourself to someone who is not at all remotely in the same situation that you are in? You can't. It's not a comparison, right?

And is it because you have a CPG brand and because you're both on social media, you think you should compare yourself? Right? No, absolutely not. But that's how they put, right, everybody's equal. And then right, start to peel the layers of the onion. Like, no, we're not equal. We're all having come into the industry on the same footing, same knowledge sets. Yep. There's so many different variables to think about, but you can't be profitable. You can't make a living on this. I'm waiting to get to that point.

of sticking to it and it's not one way to do this. Yeah, completely, completely agree. I want to talk about the vision that you have for your business. I know that you are striving to disrupt the nut category and I think you're doing that with your flavors and obviously how you're making your product. Is there anything else that is in that disruption for you? I know. And at first I was like disrupting the nut. I was like, am I?

Definitely would like to spend other products outside of nuts, hence, Live Loud Foods gives me a little wiggle room, but definitely things that are grounded in culture, love hearing about people from across the world. I think that's the commonality. Anything, it would be some bold and funky flake. It's like representation in every aisle of the store.

you know I mean? In the form of flavor is a very exciting thing to see. it's like, you're bringing that to the nut aisle for now and beyond in the future, perhaps, which I love. Do you see yourself or do you strive to be a national brand? Is that something that you hope for? I do. think it's scary to say that. And I guess it's like, how do you actually do it? And just knowing how much will take out of me. But I think that's a challenge in itself.

I'm a different person going through this. What I think is interesting too is the number of times I've asked that question to people, mainly privately in one-on-one conversations, sometimes I say, yes, I want to be a national brand, but I want to do it this way. I want to work with a series of regional suppliers or distributors, I mean, and have a national presence in the stores that work for me. Because I think in today's day and age, a national brand doesn't mean selling into Kroger. It doesn't mean selling into like

big chains necessarily, right? And I think that that's something nice to remind ourselves of is like even in the word national, even in striving for big, you know, national representation and showing up in every state. It doesn't mean you have to go into the traditional distribution channel. It doesn't mean you have to go into the traditional, you know, corporate store. You can also do that on your own terms too, which is really cool. It's just beautiful because sometimes I even struggle with

Do I even see the brand and like in say the bulk chain, know, like, you know, BJs and things like that. I'm like, I don't know. think that's, mean, if numbers work out fine, right. It's like how you can, right. You hit it on the nuts. Like you can do certain things, but it doesn't have to be the way that everybody else is, you know, doing it. How can you touch different people with stores that would have the same brand messaging as you? Yeah. You're collecting all this data. It's like, you, you know,

as you continue to collect it, this kind of store works and this kind of store doesn't. And it doesn't mean that you can only have that form of business in New York City. You can have that here or there. You can have it in California. Then you can have it in, I was going to say like Pennsylvania. You could have it in New Jersey, right? You can expand that same model in a sense. You don't have to go radically different because national is what you're hoping for. I think that I want that to be a message that people hear

from this podcast and kind of expands, extends out into the world. Like there's more than one way to do national, which is, which is exciting. And also if you don't want to do national, that's totally fine. It goes back into the whole messaging of everything is what makes sense for you. it's like, you know, it's usually like, yeah, we're gonna be the fastest, largest growing company. And it just sounds like something that would force.

to say. So even though you ask me, do you want to be national? There was probably like two seconds of hesitation. Like I have it sometimes, like, do I? What does it look like? And here, and this is a good thing too. Like you don't have to know exactly what it will look like right now. Right? Take those, you know, hurdles, but it's like be as big and as impactful as I can be. I love that. I love that. Because that's a growth mindset.

but it's not a like predetermined success outcome in terms of like, it will look like this. I'm like. It's probably something that's probably like, you shouldn't say that. You're looking for funding, have to really have this vision, know, by your three, you this is what we've, yes and no, and maybe so. You have to strive to.

You have to set the course and direction where you want to be. Yes. But to be open to say it can look, you can get the path to be a little bit different. Mm-hmm. Totally. And here's what you said. You just said the word like funding. I think in today's day and age, finding the right funder who understands like why your vision is to have the most impact. Right. I forget exactly how you worded it, but they'll get it.

They will get it if they understand the brand, if they understand who you are, and if they understand the overarching mission, right? If they don't, they'll say, wait, are you, you know what I mean? You'll know if they don't get it. And if they don't get it, they're not for you. And if they're like, that's what we want to help you do. And we want you to like replicate this in the stores that you know work for you because you've done the, like, that's the convos that I feel like for someone like you, a good funder would.

would be having with you, right? Just in general, like general funding advice is like, if someone doesn't get what your vision is, say no. If someone is out there who will get it. Yeah, sorry, unsolicited advice. No, but it is the advice that we need to hear or more of that type of advice we need to hear. It's kind of if your brand doesn't look like this or you don't aspire to do this.

your business doesn't seem successful. And what does success mean? Right, so I want to be, I think we have mentioned it before, profit versus revenue. And it's kind going through this first year, you just want to sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. like, hold on, can I look at the numbers again? Let me sure this makes sense, to make sure I'm not selling and losing and you know.

And the numbers right now, right? I know what they're telling me, right? You're in this phase, but I think right at different phases, everything is, know, things keep, you know, constantly change. But I think, you know, we praise revenue, but forget about profit. Yeah. And because revenue is easy to celebrate. Profit's a lot harder to achieve. And a lot of people don't reach it. Right.

and revenue is shiny. Revenue is something that lots of people who aren't in the industry will recognize as like, that's a good thing, right? Money going up, that's good. But I think, I can't help but think about the number of businesses that I've worked with that got smaller and got some, in some cases are generating more revenue because they're just more focused and they're more

connected with their customer and so they are generating more revenue and more profit. But we also see in a lot of cases where you shrink down and your revenue stays the same and profits go up. And so I think any, I hope that people who invest in businesses, especially businesses like yours and other good food businesses are paying attention to not the size of the business, but the ability for the business to generate

profit, right? And to really understand that this is the model that works for my product and this is the model that I want to keep replicating so I can keep replicating this profitability and keep having an impact in the way that you as a founder want to have an impact. Like, that's who I want to see funding businesses. God, wish. Does anybody want to give me a lot of money to invest in?

I think I could pick them really well. I'm not shy about the fact that I want there to be lots of independent businesses in this country who are operating free of corporate investment, free of corporate oversight. That's a whole other hour of conversations. It is.

know, you want somebody to buy you. like, well, if I'm going to be bought out why I created this, but okay, I get it. guess to make money, I got to sell to somebody. And I don't want to sell out to just anybody if I had, you know, how to sell, but it makes a difference. But why, why do you say, I'm going to pick on you for a second, because I know you're repeating something that is said. Why do we believe it's true that quote, if we want to, if I want to make money, I need to sell. That's the narrative.

And I have not sat down to say like, right, what is that? It's the thing that you hear. am I, you're not going to be profitable until about five or seven years. like, okay. That's one thing. And then right. So you really see the payday. You have to sell your business.

I don't think that that is 100 % true. I think it's certainly true for some businesses who build in a certain way. Certain people are like, I'm building this to be bought out. I I don't mind people want to buy me, but I'm like, that the only way? Why? Why do you have to build something and sell it to make money? And here's the thing. We are very BABOYOT here. Build a business on your own terms. If that's what you want to do, if that's your vision, great. Do it.

I like to support and connect with people who are building brands beyond just making money, right? But we know we need to make money to have an impact. We need to live our lives, to have a home, to have food. You know what I mean? Maybe we want a vacation. Yeah. But why is the narrative that in order to make money in a food business, you have to grow it big and fast and sell it?

That is a narrative that certain people, I think, want you to believe. Perhaps it's a narrative that corporate food wants you to believe. That's probably a narrative that certain types of investors want you to believe because if you do that, then they make money too. But I believe, I know that that is not true for every business. from the center of my soul, no.

that we can build businesses that are profitable, that you can generate wealth for you and your community and whomever you want to without having to sell it. I think that it's not your responsibility or my responsibility necessarily or inherently to uplift our communities financially, but doesn't it feel freaking good to do it, to employ people in our neighborhoods and in our

areas and to support farmers and like, I don't know. And that's kind of goes back into like, why? Why start this type of business? Because you can have that type of impact. I mean, comes with a lot of stress at times. You'd like, well, you have to pay other people. But that's like, that's like being a boss. Like you have the ability to create something that other people can eat from. Yeah. That's beautiful. Empowering, strong, like

And again, do whatever you want. Everyone listening to whatever you want, but I just don't want like there's one way to do, do something. think that's the journey of learning more about this industry and just kind of picking apart. like, are people just saying things because it just right. Is this, that's the narrative we just need to repeat it and keep going. Like, are we thinking about the choices that we do in business? That's, that's it. Think about why anything. Yes.

One of the things that I keep, the term that keeps coming up is critical thinking. What I wanted to teach people is critical thinking in business, right? To question, why is the only way I can make money if I sell this? Well, why if I do want to be national, is there only in theory one way to do it? Why? Like a child, right? Like a little kid who's just learning how to.

like live in the world and is starting to think differently. Like, why, why, why, why? I want every food founder to like emulate like a three-year-old kid and like ask why. Having these conversations, finding other people that, you know, think like you and it's like, okay, there's not one way to do this and everybody's way is, you know, different and just celebrate, you know, celebrate that part of it. Like, okay, you're choosing, you have this product, you have this, you know, this is your vision.

you know, go for it, but it's that critical thinking that some people don't have, or you don't want to challenge like what's, you the narrative that's, you know, being, you know, put out there, but just doing what makes sense for you is kind of that, you know, that bottom line and to even challenge yourself. Why am I doing this? How am I doing this? Is this alignment with who I am? I think it takes a certain level of confidence to do that.

and we don't all inherently have it. I will say firsthand that when I started this podcast, I didn't have the level of confidence that I have now to say some of the things I'm saying to you. And so I think it's the same too when you're inundated with messaging, you believe that messaging to be true. And it takes courage and confidence to question that messaging and to push back a little bit. And that's why

we're here. That's why this podcast exists. That's why I asked you onto the show is to have these conversations and for you to share your story about how you're doing things differently, how you're looking at the data, how you're taking your time this year and being really thoughtful about things because I know that it will encourage other people to do the same thing. Not follow in your footsteps exactly because that's not what we're saying to do, but to do things in the way that you feel comfortable and to question things when you really aren't

sure why you're doing it, you know, and things like that. It will change, hopefully, the way that people do business and the way that business is done eventually within the greater food industry. I know that being, you know, in this side of it, you know, you think being a chef, you know, you know about the food industry, but then being on this end of it, like, it's a whole different animal. Yeah. there's certain things that bleed over, but it's a whole different ballpark. Yeah. Yeah.

I want to switch gears a little bit. We do like a little questionnaire before we have a guest on the podcast just to kind of gauge like, what do you want to talk about? And so what are some financial lessons that you learned? And one of the things that you said, and I'm quoting you here is, launching a business is not cheap. And this is true, no matter how much of a hype person I can be about like, we can do this and we're going to change the industry.

I also think it's really important to say this is expensive and in order to last, you have to know how much money this is going to cost you to have a really good estimation. So tell me, how did you learn that launching a business is not cheap? So I guess some people buy themselves vacations. guess I buy myself businesses. How did I find it? So I guess the number that I was speaking to, there's different R &D companies and just

different people in the industry and people who didn't know me from a hole in the wall, like I said, have this good karma, just tell me things. So they're like, yeah, the number between like 60,000 to like 100,000 to launch a CPG company. I kept hearing that number over. like, all right, I just sat with it. If that's what it is, that's what it is. And you're talking about how much it takes to even develop a product.

get it packaged depending what route you want to do to get it made, the marketing that goes behind it. And there's so many other fees that you wouldn't even know that comes up, you know, when starting a company. the number was between 60 to a hundred thousand. And I guess depends on what product you have as well. What I'd rather do is all over again from the beginning. I think I'm glad I landed on nuts. It wasn't as bad. But initially I was like, okay, I'm going have this.

R &D company, I'm going to to a co packer and I'm like, blah, all over the place. Going to find the co packer and just learning all these numbers that kind of humbled myself just how much money do I have realistically to invest and just knowing that your money has to last you a certain point if I went, I if I wanted to be in all these now, you know, big change right away, I will have to have that type of money behind me to, know,

get me get me through. But yes, this every little thing costs when I found out you have to pay for barcodes. I'm like, bark, certain things you just I wish I had to that naive person going through the shop and I'll like, tell you have to pay for that. It's calmed down a little bit, but just as humbling, very humbling, like look like little things add up. You know, anytime you look at a project, if somebody gives you number, you know, it's gonna be a little bit

you know, over, you know, that, and then what it takes to market your product, even doing paid ads, not paid ads, paying for somebody to do it, you know, for you. So all these things just add up quickly. And then it goes back into what you want and what you can financially withhold. You know, where are you going to get this money from? Are you going to use cash or news access to credit, mom, whatever it is. A part of it is.

I think the advice I give to people is like, I've got a point where I manage my personal life different than I manage business. To say that I'm comfortable with a amount of business-wise, personally, I'm like, owing anybody anything. Just having that level of comfortability with it. But it's definitely five figure and up games at minimum to play with. Being a professional, if I just need my knives and a...

and the good recipe and we're off to the races. Or the food product, you need your inventory and how much inventory you're going to start off with, but it's definitely capital intensive. it's something, if you're comfortable with the numbers of telling yourself the truth, having somebody tell you the truth. If you don't want to tell yourself the truth, hopefully someone else can. If you had this much money, what would you do with it? Like you tell somebody.

I gave you $100 today, what would you do with it? Marketing wise, so many different answers just knowing what you want your outcomes to look like. I've gotten in the beginning, I said, got a quote for to develop the three SKUs for me was about $40,000.

I was like, woo, okay. Luckily I think my form was good enough or whatever, but just seeing.

what come, what businesses can go through. Yeah. Your product on the shelf. doesn't mean your products need to be successful. That's the hardest truth about it. Like you can spend right $60,000 or whatever this number is not even being on the shelf and you can flop. Yeah. Are you comfortable losing that investment? I would say business is not for everybody. Everybody should be in business these once in a life.

but it's not for everybody. What is your risk tolerance? It's decisions that you have to constantly make. I love that. That risk tolerance, that question of are you comfortable losing it all because it's possible. Are you going to be willing to say stop when you should stop? think is another big one. I've shared the story of my

my food business and I know I should have stopped longer, like much earlier than I did, but I was ashamed, you know, and that was a big lesson to kind of my body finally was like, you're either going to stop or we're going to stop you. was just so stressed out about it, right? But I think that's really great advice. I have one more kind of finance related question for you. So you said one of the biggest lessons that you've learned around your business finances is

to really understand revenue versus profit. And I think I shared with you offline that someone recently in a one-on-one conversation told me that they didn't know the difference before they started working with me and that that was just a huge sort of revelation about how much of their revenue actually goes away and what profit really is and that difference. I was just curious, were you one of those people? I mean, you have a numbers background.

So maybe it wasn't as extreme of a misunderstanding as this person, but what was that for you when you maybe had an aha moment of like, okay, revenue is not the same as profit? I think I was in that moment of like, we keep celebrating revenue or for me to setting the goal of saying, want to sell $4,000 this month, I want to make $4,000. that's like...

You do, you you're just trying to hit certain thresholds, but sometimes you have to make sure you take those little moments to kind of check your numbers. Because you can just sell for selling sake, but you're not really bringing back the money to grow your business. And we need to realize that part, the key part of profit is that little extra money that you get to grow your business. Because if not, I'm just selling enough just to basically do another run. I'm just working for free.

I mean, it's not the business is not going to grow. So just having those moments of, what goal setting goals that make sense to help the business grow. So it's, if my goal is to right, sell this amount because I'm able to buy this ingredient at a cheaper cost. Let that be the goal. Right. Just blindly saying, let me pick this number because at the end of the year I can say, made this amount of money. No. Yes. Yeah.

I think that's great advice. But kind of just taking it a step further and really looking at your business. once again, raise if you can't look, if don't want to look at the numbers or not. Not even if you don't want to look at the numbers is sometimes it's like, how do you read the numbers? Being an analyst is a whole other skill set in itself. You know, it's kind of like for me, right? Where's my background? I'm looking at numbers and looking at the story. Like what is the story?

you know, telling me and then taking that and hopefully changing things incrementally. But not to overanalyze and that you just, you know, going crazy at end of the day. just the scene was coming out of if I'm doing X, what's the result? You know, from A it could be tangible, not tangible. So, but most of us, like we're solopreneurs, so can't do everything and do it well. I know things are falling apart in other parts.

But it's trying to start to fall in love with the numbers I'll tell anybody. Well, you know I love that advice. Yeah. And I think I want to echo what you're saying is like, yeah, picking a number because at the end of the year you've got $500,000 in sales or a million dollars in sales or $250,000 in sales is like not a helpful goal to have.

Right? It's like, why is asking yourself the question sort of critical thinking, right? It's like, why do I want that to be the number? And as you said, like, is it because I will then unlock this like larger, you know, purchase size and save per unit on my nuts or my packaging or something like that? Will that be the number where if my costs stay steady, I can achieve profitability?

That why behind a revenue number is a really interesting thing to think about. Hopefully, it's challenging people right now who are listening to go, why do I have the sales goal that I have? What is that rooted in? I think that's amazing. Well, Keesha of Live Loud Foods, this is lovely. Thank you so much for spending now over an hour with me. I so appreciate your time. We can talk forever about this. I know. Where can people learn more about Live Loud Foods?

and what you're up to. see. I guess the best place is Instagram. You can always DM me and say, what's up? So that would be at live.loud.foods and also online www.liveloudfoods.com. Good old fashioned email. Hi at liveloudfoods.com. Amazing. And I don't know if for those who aren't watching on YouTube, Keesha of Live Loud Foods has really beautiful art on

Her walls, will you? Yeah, I was just going to say, can you go up so pretty? So gorgeous. I have some more. haven't put them on frames yet, so I'll take a picture. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. Well, thank you again for being here today. It's been a pleasure and hopefully we'll stay in touch. Thank you.

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Importance of Testing Financial Models in Food Businesses